Challenge 10, Round 1 DQs.

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Challenge 10, Round 1 DQs.

Postby gstark on Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:49 pm

All,

We are very impressed with the quality of the entries submitted for round 1 of the challenge.

However, the description of the topic for the challenge was very deliberately worded and specific in its nature. Those who had queries on the topic were invited to air their questions, and many of you did. Here is the wording ...

rules wrote:One egg: Your image must contain as the obvious, primary, identifiable and dominant element, one egg. The egg must be from an animal source of some kind, such as a farmyard foul and must be of natural extraction, and thus items such as thunder eggs, chocolate eggs, Faberge eggs and the like are specifically excluded. Photomicrography is also not permitted for this challenge.


After Scott revealed the entries, several of the moderators, including myself, expressed some concerns that a few of the images did not seem to comply with the description. This was not the first time that we've had concerns about compliance, but it is the first time that we've had a fairly well nailed down theme, and therefore, after much discussion amongst the moderators, it has been agreed that the following images be excluded from the competiton, for the specific reasons noted.

Please note that this is the first time that we have been in a position to do this; it was agreed that the rules are clear and explicit, and to not take this action would place those who complied at a potential disadvantage.

We are taking the action of posting this advice so that all members can gain an understanding of how we're thinking, and so that, hopefully, this sort of issue does not recur.

In no particular order, the images and the reasons:

    Cracking Surf: One egg was not the obvious, dominant subject in this image. None of the eggs stood out as being dominant.

    Snooty Eggs: One egg was not the obvious, dominant subject in this image. None of the eggs stood out as being dominant.

    Egg enjoying the sunset: The egg was not the obvious, dominant subject in this image. It was felt that this was an image of a sunset, with an egg.

    Egg of darkness: The egg was not considered to be obviously an egg.

    Birth of a legend: The egg was not the obvious, dominant subject in this image. It was felt that this was possibly, or probably, an image of a lens.



Please also note that Scott remains as the only person who knows who shot which entry was shot by which member. No other individual has this knowledge, and in each case of an image being excluded, there was a clear majority of moderators from the pool who felt that the image did not comply.

These decisions are final, and no correspondence on these decisions will be permitted.

Thank you for your cooperation,
Last edited by gstark on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
g.
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Postby Heath Bennett on Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:07 pm

I can agree with what Gary has said. I think the brief is a very tight one, which can be difficult to work with. I do like the way this will make all legitimate entries more similar than ever before. I haven't put my entry in yet, but plan to do so for the second - especially now that the challenge is so different to previous ones.
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Postby birddog114 on Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:12 pm

Well done and good work the A Team.

I'm not in it and always prefer that way.
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Postby leek on Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:13 pm

That's a shame (but understandable)... particularly as some of those entries were quite creative and/or entertaining... I think one of them would certainly have got thaddeus' vote as well :-)
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Postby owen on Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:19 pm

I feel bad for the people that got disqualified, however the specs were pretty specific.

I know that there is no use talking about the specific DNQ entries, however the reason behind the 'egg of darkness'... I feel that if that is reason for getting the boot then there are other images that could well be in the same boat. To me it seems a bit unfair that one could lose a chance when there are others that are also fairly abstract and not distinguishable as being an egg.
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Postby Nnnnsic on Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:22 pm

Granted, the moderator panel discussed it pretty thoroughly today and this was our result.

Let me make it clear that I would prefer not to lock this thread, however if I start to see discussion of entries that may or may not have been disqualified, I'll gladly do so.
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Postby owen on Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:25 pm

I know you guys would have given it a good work over. I can't help but feel a little bad about it. Anywho... onto round 2.
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Postby Geoff on Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:29 pm

A good work over?
Hell - it was about 9 pages!!!

:shock: :D
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Postby birddog114 on Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:34 pm

Geoff wrote:A good work over?
Hell - it was about 9 pages!!!

:shock: :D


Behind the scene!

Lucky, I'm not in :lol:
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Postby MHD on Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:41 pm

birddog114 wrote:
Geoff wrote:A good work over?
Hell - it was about 9 pages!!!

:shock: :D


Behind the scene!

Lucky, I'm not in :lol:

I did get some work done today... but only a little...

If only mu post count counted towards my thesis I would have 100 pages by now (instead of only 58)
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Postby MCWB on Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:05 am

MHD wrote:If only mu post count counted towards my thesis I would have 100 pages by now (instead of only 58)

We should really work on that. ;)
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Postby gstark on Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:03 am

owen wrote:I know you guys would have given it a good work over. I can't help but feel a little bad about it. Anywho... onto round 2.


Owen,

I can assure you that we too felt sad about this, but as noted, we gave this very serious consideration.

Scott, you're obviously doing your thesis on the wrong subject. :)
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Postby gstark on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:34 am

owen wrote:I feel bad for the people that got disqualified, however the specs were pretty specific.

I know that there is no use talking about the specific DNQ entries, however the reason behind the 'egg of darkness'... I feel that if that is reason for getting the boot then there are other images that could well be in the same boat. To me it seems a bit unfair that one could lose a chance when there are others that are also fairly abstract and not distinguishable as being an egg.


Owen,

We discussed a number of other images as well, but in the end we decided that vote amongst the mods seemed to be the fairest way to decide this issue.

We also decided that there needed to be a clear majority of mods voting down an image.

So yes, some other images might seem similar in some aspects and perhaps came close, the bottom line is that not enough of us felt that way about those other images, and thus they remain in the challenge.

No process is perfect, and if you - or anyone else - can offer suggestions about how we may be able to improve the process, then we're certainly happy to listen. I believe that Scott's post, offerring a spot ruling on images during the comp, will help to address this problem, but I think that given the circumstances, we have struck a fair and reasonable position.
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Postby owen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:40 am

Hi Gary.

Thanks for letting us know the process that was taken.

The only other possibility I can see is to let the natural voting process of the challenge eliminate those that don't fit the theme properly?
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Postby stubbsy on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:44 am

owen wrote:The only other possibility I can see is to let the natural voting process of the challenge eliminate those that don't fit the theme properly?

Owen that was one of the things we thrashed out. The concern for me and some others was that doing so still left open the possibility that an exceptionally high quality image that failed only in terms of adherance to the theme could concievably win a prize. Should that eventuate things would be very messy. Better to sort the issue out now when the disqualified entrants still have the second chance round to get an image in.
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Postby owen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:46 am

Ah yes, I didn't think of that.

It's good to see you guys are so pro-active in sorting out any issues :)
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Postby gstark on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:55 am

owen wrote:Hi Gary.

Thanks for letting us know the process that was taken.

The only other possibility I can see is to let the natural voting process of the challenge eliminate those that don't fit the theme properly?


Further to what Peter has said, in past challenges we've seen images - that many considered did not adhere to the theme - score quite highly. People will interpret things as they wish, and thus we decided (prior to the announcement) that a more tightly defined theme was required, thus permitting less room for (mis)interpretation.

Implicit in that is the recognition by us that nobody is perfect, and that some may be inclined, when voting, to consider the image without regard to its aherance to the stated subject.

A fringe benefit (for want of a more appropriate term) of this is that we are now able to to add this review process into the mix, and thus ensure that only those images that it is felt adhere to theme will go through into the voting process.

We are upset that this means that some images are excluded at this point, but we feel that this is still a better outcome than potentially having a non-compliant image winning the challenge.
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Postby Glen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:56 am

Owen, Stubbsy nailed this one on the head. If the challenge calls for a shot of a Hyundai and someone submits an image of a Ferrari, it would be very unfair to let the Ferrari image go to the voting stage. People who adhered to the theme would have every right to complain.
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Postby Yedrup on Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:22 am

I agree with the decision of the admins here to remove the images from the comp for the simple reason of fairness. I may have been debating which image to give my top mark to and this may have been between one not strictly complying with the criteria and one that did comply. Should I have decided on the non-compliant entry then my second choice may have been disadvantaged in the comp in relation to overall position.

On becoming a member of this forum I was happy to meet and be greeted by such a great bunch of people. In addition I was given the opportunity to improve my limited skills in photography by accepting challenges and attempting to meet the criteria as decided by the forum.

I applaud wholeheartedly the administraters here for their actions and thank them for continuing to show that they are a great bunch of people. Now if only I could improve my photography all would be well.

By the way my commiserations to those that have been omitted, no one has said that your images were anything but stunning and I am sure your next entries will blow our socks off.

Cheers,
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Postby pharmer on Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:42 pm

So the question is now; Are the DNQ images going to be removed from the gallery?

With them left there, it seems to clog up the viewing a little and it not readily apparent they are invalid entries (expect for a small DNQ underneath)
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Postby Alpha_7 on Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:47 pm

Perhaps there can be a seperate division for them, I think they still belong there somewhere, as they help provide a comparison to avoid being DNQ in round 2.
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Postby Glen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:48 pm

Barrie, they are purposely left there as an example of what not to do. They are a vital part for entrants to be able to tell what is not acceptable. Voting is always done in a 3rd gallery, which is a combination of Gallery 1 and 2, disqualified images will not make it to Gallery 3 so as not to confuse voters.

It is much fairer to leave the examples up, than try to describe where the images did not comply.
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