Bargains section and equipment purchasing

[Glen]

Genji, the real harm is that Birddog has an IT company that requires his time & attention and a family who would like to see him. He has generously taken on the role of supplying goods at no profit to members of our community. I have been at his place and have seen him work 2-3 days straight on D70 Users business. This leaves no time for him to make an income. The reason for the restrictions is people have been locating this site via a search, take advantage of the bargains, then leave without adding to the community. They have used a very valuable resource up, Birddog's time and generosity, which our community is lucky to have. Interestingly the people who offer least, try to haggle the most and make the most calls and emails. That is the real harm we are trying to avoid, and 30 posts is a small price to prove ones bona fides and get a taste of the flavour of the forum

[phillipb]

I agree with Glen,
Besides, people who don't want to contribute to this site can always buy from birddog from his trading post ads. His prices there are a bit more then what he gives us but they're still good prices and he gets compensated for his time.

[genji]

Glen, i agree with any 'measure' the admins put in place to weed out the scums.

I guess the reward for contributing and enhancing to this forum, is birddogs generosity. And to lose that generosity because of a few bad apple should be avoided.

[MattC]

Genji, the real harm is that Birddog has an IT company that requires his time & attention and a family who would like to see him.

This has been my biggest concern all along. Sometimes I wonder the restrictions placed on purchasing through Birddog are not tight enough. What is going to happen as the forum grows and the demands on Birddog increase? Will we see Birddog pack it in because the workload is simply too much? Or will we see Birddog offer limited numbers of lenses and accessories at bargain prices that he has negotiated with his suppliers (tough luck if we miss out) and for anything else we find it ourselves?

Sometimes I think that it would be more appropriate for individuals to do some of the leg work themselves, finding the bargains and passing the details on to the rest of us.

I, for one, do not want to lose this valuable resource. Birddog's time and efforts need to be treated with respect.

Cheers

Matt

[Glen]

Matt, great sentiment which I wholeheartedly agree with. Many do not realise that when they have had an hour or two of Birddy time in a week, there have been 10 or so who also have. That is why it is good to ask the group for advice rather than just pm Birddy for advice, it shares the workload around. Your idea of sharing research is great

[MattC]

Glen,

I honestly thought that this is what the bargains section was for. It seems though, that it has become a one stop shop to Birddog's bargains.

Cheers

Matt

[Glen]

Matt,
I think the situation is everyone wants an SB800, 50 1.8, 70-200 VR or 24-120 VR, 12-24. etc so many of those things come direct from Birddog. Other things are a bit more individual such as L brackets which only MHD, Killa, Birrdy and myself have (I beleive). Or a 45 2.8P which I think I have the only one on the board, but who did I get it through? The Birddog Poon combo. So all Nikon stuff tends to end up at Birddog's doorstep due to the great prices. You have correctly described what the bargain section is for, lets hope more interesting traders and products appear

[stubbsy]

This is incredibly difficult to control isn't it. birddog is a very generous person and his prices will most likely be the best you can find so generally the bargains will always be birddog/poon ones. Of course like has already been said we should be posting non birddog bargains in this thread too and that IS what's happening, it's just there's not a lot of them because of birddog's prices.

At some stage its inevitable things will get just too big for birddog - just look at the problems we're all having keeping up with the exponential growth in forum posts. At that time I, and I'm sure many others, will be more than willing to step into the breach. We can distribute the workload around eg one person fields all order enquiries (ones to birddog to be ignored) and only that person(s) liaises with birddog (or maybe Mr Poon direct). negotiations with suppliers (eg Optech straps etc) to be the responsibility of another and so on.

My view is we need to start planning NOW for reducing birddog's D70 workload since birddog is so generous and obliging that he won't let on until things get REALLY bad for him (I ask myself why was he working all day on Australia Day while many of us relaxed). Maybe we can roll this issue into the planning for our annual conference.

As an aside, the use of fozzie as a contact for SA members who want straps is a good example of a path we can head down (not targetting fozzie in particular here)

Just my several cents!

[gstark]

i've just spent 2 hours reading through this thread, i have a couple of suggestions, that i don think have not been raised (but i could be wrong!)

1. what about a rating system, similair to http://www.whirlpool.net.au, although we dont have many members as whirlpool (72,634 members) to enforce. But then whirlpool has a much broader audience.

2. have a scale, ie 30 post gets u a look in, 100 post lets you buy under $100, etc. that way it makes it harder for opportunist to take advantage of the system. members who post 100 in a day can be weeded out.
but this stop members with geniune intentions.

Any member posting 100 a day needs to seriously get aq life.

Trust me when I say that we can pick those who are trying to up their count with useless or spam posts.

And please remember that 30 posts is only a part of it, and - very important - it's only a guide for you. Leigh and I have sole discretion about this, and we can choose to accelerate the process if we feel that someone is making valuable posts, or we can delay the the process where feel they're just wanting the discounts.

Don't forget the other requirements - posting an image is desirable, and ensuring that your location is included in your profile is essential.

The bottom line is that these are the guidelines we follow, and that's how it is.

The best advice I can give you is that yopu forget all about the bargains section, and focus on becoming a valuable member of the community. If you take my advice, the benefits will flow before you know it. Ignore my advice, and, well ...

[gstark]

what is the real harm? a member buying from birddog and re-selling at a profit?? i suspect this would happen once.

maybe what u need is an middle-man who can monitor and make approvals?? [/img]

Genji,

The mere fact that you have even asked this question concerns me greatly.

The whole idea behind D70Users.com is that we form a strong, supportive, and friendly community, based upon our common enjoyment of photography. We have a number of active members here who do not even own any Nikons, let alone a D70.

They see the value in this community for what it is, and the bargains section is a privilege and a bonus.

Let me make it perfectly clear to you that the rules have been set up in order to promote the sense of community, and so far it seems that about 430 of the 432 people here seem perfectly happy with that arrangement.

Focus not on the bargains section, but on the community.

Learn, and understand what we're about, and - most importantly, join in.

[genji]

what is the real harm? a member buying from birddog and re-selling at a profit?? i suspect this would happen once.

maybe what u need is an middle-man who can monitor and make approvals?? [/img]

Genji,

The mere fact that you have even asked this question concerns me greatly.

R u saying the it greatly concerned u that I asked the question? IMHO i am more concerned that ppl are making a buck out of someones generosity rather then them finding a bargain.

FYI I have started 2 threads in the image critique forum and also 2 threads in the general discussion forum. I have been a member since the 19 Jan 2005. Thats 1 post per week in the image and general discussion forum. I intend to keep it that way, as it would give me time to process photos, digest the critique and participate in other posts.

If members can't asked/raised questions for fear of being 'flagged' to the admins, its no wonder we only see the same ppl posting all the time.

[Nnnnsic]

The two Dad left out of the total in the last post have caused problems in the past... just so no one thinks that's them and that we're targetting you.

I mean, we probably are, but that's not the point.

[Nnnnsic]

FYI I have started 2 threads in the image critique forum and also 2 threads in the general discussion forum. I have been a member since the 19 Jan 2005. Thats 1 post per week in the image and general discussion forum. I intend to keep it that way, as it would give me time to process photos, digest the critique and participate in other posts.

If members can't asked/raised questions for fear of being 'flagged' to the admins, its no wonder we only see the same ppl posting all the time.

Whoa, hold on there, pard'ner.

This isn't a pissing contest nor is there a suggestion that you're being flagged here.

And members are allowed to ask or raise any question that so pleases them, but some of them within this 6 month period of operation have tried to become intermediaries for the Bargains section and / or the administration of this forum within their first few weeks of joining up.

And by the way, we see the same people posting here all the time because they like posting and contributing to the forum. If others don't, fine for them, but the point of this place is to be a community. We don't pay special attention to the senior members any more so than we would to someone who's been a member for a few weeks.

However, people who have only recently joined who put forth such a suggestion that they should be one of the people who moderate and / or make approvals sounds a bit pointless... people in question with ideas like that need to wait just a bit longer before we place our trust in them.

We will make moderators in the near future... but these will be people we know will do a good job, we can trust, and who have been on here long enough to understand the community.

[Matt. K]

Gary, Nnnnsic,

This forum is in bloody good hands.

[johndec]

Glen & Stubbsy & all actually. I couldn't agree more with the sentiments expressed.

As has already been mentioned, this forum is growing exponentially and we all owe a great debt of gratitude to Birddog for making an expensive hobby more affordable. However, we can not and should not expect Birddog to spend more and more of his time satisying the needs and wants of an increasingly voracious animal. By the same token we just can't draw a line in the sand and say the only first 400 members receive preferential treatment and the rest can go jump. That's just not fair as I'm sure there are hundreds of valued members yet to discover our community.

Stubbsy said it all when he said we have to start planning NOW. Of course, the rest of us don't have a business realtionship with Mr Poon, nor (in most cases) a business structure to facilitate ordering the equipment we enjoy at the prices that makes Maxwell's accountant choke on his cornflakes!!

We have to work out a system whereby senior/trusted members can handle the "grunt" work of collating and pricing orders from qualified members and distilling it into a simple weekly or probably even better monthly order. Perhaps an "Orders Manager" could be appointed, a bank account created - all strictly cash up front, that way Birddog gets one order, not a hundred and the cash is already there to pay for it.

If we just let things roll along as they are, in 12 months time this forum will have 2000 members and we will have killed the goose (duck?) that laid the golden eggs....

I suppose by making this post, I'm sticking my hand up to help I have no problems with that, but I'll be taking a few of you down with me

[bago100]

I don't always agree with Gary and Leigh but Matt,I absoloutely agree - this forum is in really good hands (and their minds aren't too bad either )

There are a lot of other people who contribute heavily to the success of this forum - they know who they are, and anything that any member can do to reduce their workload should be done.

The forum is growing at a tremendous rate, and I'll admit to feeling somewhat disenfranchised because there are so many new members and the rate of new posts is making it impossible (for me, anyhow) to keep up with what is being discussed and happening.

Still, it is a valuable resource and it is worth making a contribution when you can.

Graham

[genji]

...However, people who have only recently joined who put forth such a suggestion that they should be one of the people who moderate and / or make approvals sounds a bit pointless... people in question with ideas like that need to wait just a bit longer before we place our trust in them....

mate,
i made a suggestion, because i see it heading that way, I never ever mention i was going to be the one...u miss-read the post. And if u r reading between the line...u r mistaken.

enough said from me on this post. gotta upload some photos to pixspot

[sheepie]

I suppose by making this post, I'm sticking my hand up to help I have no problems with that, but I'll be taking a few of you down with me

I am sure there are several of us that will be able to help in some way. Birddog, please make sure you are not afraid to sing out if you need anything.

Perhaps we could have one person to handle orders of a particular nature, and another handle something else (?).

Most important of all, is that we don't make this a site where all we talk about is merchandise and the 'bargain' someone may or may not have been able to get off birddog. Let's make especially sure that it doesn't become a 'bitch' section on why someone was able to get something and someone else wasn't

I'm with Johndec - please let us know if there is anything we can help with , especially as we are so close to 'the spiritual home of d70users.com' (birddogs place!).

[johndec]

I suppose by making this post, I'm sticking my hand up to help I have no problems with that, but I'll be taking a few of you down with me

I am sure there are several of us that will be able to help in some way. Birddog, please make sure you are not afraid to sing out if you need anything.

Perhaps we could have one person to handle orders of a particular nature, and another handle something else (?).

Most important of all, is that we don't make this a site where all we talk about is merchandise and the 'bargain' someone may or may not have been able to get off birddog. Let's make especially sure that it doesn't become a 'bitch' section on why someone was able to get something and someone else wasn't

I'm with Johndec - please let us know if there is anything we can help with , especially as we are so close to 'the spiritual home of d70users.com' (birddogs place!).

Funny you should reply in such a positive fashion.. I was aware of our geographical "bond". Had you in mind as a potential "volunteer"

[MCWB]

I'm with Johndec - please let us know if there is anything we can help with , especially as we are so close to 'the spiritual home of d70users.com' (birddogs place!).

Indeed, and +1 to the volunteer list. Personally I think Stubbsy hit the nail right on the head: we need to think of the load this is all placing on Birdy now, and what will happen into the future. He won't complain about it, but we should do our utmost to alleviate the pressure on him nonetheless.

[MattC]

I'll put my hand up also. Geographical location is a big limiter for me, but I am willing to contribute where I can. Actually, there is already something that I am working on. If I manage to pull it off, you will all hear about it. Getting a response from this guy can be a little difficult.

Here is an idea. How about a little working bee to fill orders one afternoon a week, throw in a few reds and some good company and have a good time packing and labelling all of those goodies for members.

Cheers

Matt

[sheepie]

Actually, there is already something that I am working on. If I manage to pull it off, you will all hear about it.

You working on a meet at your place eh? Hope you've got plenty of room!

[MattC]

Sheepie,

All are welcome here... If you do not mind driving 3000km!!!

Cheers

Matt

[Onyx]

Would it be helpful to overhaul the HKSupplies website, and incorporate an ordering account for D70users so members can view and order direct from HKS?! Of course it won't make Birddog redundant, he'll still be kept in the loop knowing who ordered what, and remains the point of contact for potential enquiries, order tracking and after sales service should the need arise.

Looking at the way Pluscorp (being a sponsor of OCAU) has a generic account for OCAU members, offering discounts on their standard web listed prices. Maybe the concept could be applied here in the case of D70users and HKSupplies.

If we could somehow streamline or automate much of the ordering process, we wouldn't need to consume the precious resources of our generous Forum Patron.

Another idea is to restrict purchases or pickups to the weekly Saturday mini-meets for Sydney members. That's more or less happenning already, but we could solidify this "rule" so Birddog remains more free during the week to make his living.... those that drop by his place on weekdays are penalised by having to pay his Trading Post prices.

[christiand]

I believe Onyx is on to something with this:

"Would it be helpful to overhaul the HKSupplies website, and incorporate an ordering account for D70users so members can view and order direct from HKS?! Of course it won't make Birddog redundant, he'll still be kept in the loop knowing who ordered what, and remains the point of contact for potential enquiries, order tracking and after sales service should the need arise.

Looking at the way Pluscorp (being a sponsor of OCAU) has a generic account for OCAU members, offering discounts on their standard web listed prices. Maybe the concept could be applied here in the case of D70users and HKSupplies.

If we could somehow streamline or automate much of the ordering process, we wouldn't need to consume the precious resources of our generous Forum Patron."

I guess with the implementation of a members login, order page on HKS a hughe burdon could be removed from Birddog.
This burdon he carries at the moment for the benefit of members is costing money, time, his resource, stretching his generosity and as already has been said, ( using my words this time ) is inevetably going to burn him out .
I also have been guilty of contacting Birddog directly regarding a purchase. My apologies.
I think he should be removed from "non" GST purchases from HKS
for his own protection.

My thoughts based on Onyx's suggestions.

Regards
CD

[Nnnnsic]

Since none of Onyx's suggestions directly affect the D70 Forum administration, I think a lot of it rests on what Birddog has to say.

Mind you Onyx, the special account system on Overclockers works to the point that the original idea was you had to have a certain number of posts or be a member for a certain period of time before you could get the password for the account... but that failed when people started handing out the password any other threads for whatever reason.

The Bargains section is still for people with 30 posts or more and, while Poon's prices are excellent anyway, you have to ask if it's possible to regulate a D70Users special price account and still keep the 30 post (or whatever rule we use) system in place.

[sheepie]

At the end of all of this, it still has to be reinforced (and correct me if I am wrong)...

The deals Birddog has been able to get are one-offs, and there is no guarantee they will continue.

Birddog is arranging this in his own time, and as such, has the absolute right to determine who he deals with, and how much work he does.

The '30 post' rule has been put in place merely as a guideline (mostly) for new members wanting to know what this is all about.

It is still up to Birddog who he chooses to deal with.

[birddog114]

Would it be helpful to overhaul the HKSupplies website, and incorporate an ordering account for D70users so members can view and order direct from HKS?! Of course it won't make Birddog redundant, he'll still be kept in the loop knowing who ordered what, and remains the point of contact for potential enquiries, order tracking and after sales service should the need arise.

Looking at the way Pluscorp (being a sponsor of OCAU) has a generic account for OCAU members, offering discounts on their standard web listed prices. Maybe the concept could be applied here in the case of D70users and HKSupplies.

If we could somehow streamline or automate much of the ordering process, we wouldn't need to consume the precious resources of our generous Forum Patron.

Another idea is to restrict purchases or pickups to the weekly Saturday mini-meets for Sydney members. That's more or less happenning already, but we could solidify this "rule" so Birddog remains more free during the week to make his living.... those that drop by his place on weekdays are penalised by having to pay his Trading Post prices.

Onyx,
In reply to your point of view, Poon does not want to handle another task and job for his business, or his staff, part of dealing direct with me, he has many of his customers in the other side of the world same as his eBay store, I discussed with him all what people have said since yesterday when he was here last December but none will be suitable for him nor me.
His website now is maintained by other people and he has to pay for their works as you've known he's not an expert in this field so create an other account for us is not a good solution, in the other hand we're not his big customer., and the fluctuation of the dollars everyday is not make him happily to have more works from us, or prices will be changed to offset the expenses.

Secondly, to ship one item from his store to you is more expensive than to ship bulk to me, though the saving is going to members not his business. I only asked him to ship to individual incase I don't have it in stock or something is not in his usual stock.

To all other members,

Thanks for giving some ideas and support: how to simplify and supporting me to run a "shop for the community". The important parts here are:
- Logistics, funding, stock control, dealing with suppliers in daily basic.

Just briefing the status of order from members since 1st January from Poon stock:
- Approx. AU$15000.00 for the month and particular in 70-200VRs + couple 80-400VR and 4 x 24-120VR, number of SB-800s, 50/1.4 + 50/1.8.
02 x Sigma 70-300 + filters etc...
As above, the traffic of trading is not major issues for me to handle, secondly stocks now are mainly from Sydney and can be supplied or transfered as soon as I received the order from members, except to members, who want to save local freight charges (e.g:$22.00 to Victoria for a lens), or for members in SA, WA or "State" countries, outside of our courier delivery ranges then I have to ask the order to be shipped from HKG, for saving.

-Optech USA is on our book and we can order anytime we want, though the advance payment has to be made to them prior to ship to us, say the last order before Xmas which I received in late January was closed to AU$3500.00 after GST and freight, consisting of 120 Pro Loop Straps and Grip straps, and the movement of these straps are not great, but I'm happy to fund it cos I want to have them ready to distribute to members on request and to order in quantity you'll get a good price plus saving on shipping.

- Polo shirt, I still have stock of 100 shirts and none of them sold since December.

Stress, yes I have both stresses at my main biz same as my hobbies, my family understand the nature of it and supporting me throughout all the processes same as your supports in the past, I'm happy to continuing to do what I did same as my acknowledgements to the forum's guidelines are in place and may we hold to it.

[MATT]

Birdog, I think we all have your best interests at heart.

Keep up the good work.

And thankyou

Matt

[dooda]

We don't pay special attention to the senior members

What about certain party animals...do you pay special attention to them?

I must say that I think of myself as a regular poster, but I do it for the sheer fun of being part of the community and for some reason I've grown fond of people that I've never physically met but enjoy all the same. I don't really have convenient access to birdie's bargains so that doesn't factor into it (although I've thought about ordering a pro strap or a tshirt recently.)

I must say that since this place has exploded in size I'm less inclined to login as the number of posts and subjects becomes overwhelming. It may be selfish but I kind of hope that the site will stop growing so quickly. Sorry if that's a terrible thing to say but it's just my two bits.

[W00DY]

It may be selfish but I kind of hope that the site will stop growing so quickly. Sorry if that's a terrible thing to say but it's just my two bits.

I must say I have thought this as well

I have just came back from 5 days away from the forum and I had 3400 posts to read

W00DY

[birddog114]

It may be selfish but I kind of hope that the site will stop growing so quickly. Sorry if that's a terrible thing to say but it's just my two bits.

I must say I have thought this as well

I have just came back from 5 days away from the forum and I had 3400 posts to read

W00DY

You shouldn't go at all, I told ya!

[W00DY]

You shouldn't go at all, I told ya!

I should have listened

How was the workshop on the weekend?

W00DY

[birddog114]

You shouldn't go at all, I told ya!

I should have listened

How was the workshop on the weekend?

W00DY

What workshop?

[Nnnnsic]

It may be selfish but I kind of hope that the site will stop growing so quickly. Sorry if that's a terrible thing to say but it's just my two bits.

I must say I have thought this as well

I have just came back from 5 days away from the forum and I had 3400 posts to read

How do you think Dad and I feel? Lol.

I know I'm logged in at work watching even tho. I should probably be working (I do it in the space of the computer processing a file...)

[bago100]

I see Birdie has a stock of 100 D70 forum shirts and has sold none since December.

Maybe a condition of access to the bargains section could include a mandatory purchase of a D70 users T shirt in addition to the 30 posts minimum. This would indicate some kind of comittment to maintaining the group experience and to belonging in general.

It would reduce Birdies stock and free up some cash flow.

As for me, I already proudly own two D70 shirts and wear one of them often The black shirt is my favourite, but it does show some visible washing machine lint if accidentally washed with white towels. This is a design fault of the washing machine rather than of the shirt. Of course, the washing machine operator is blameless especially if she is one's spouse!

Cheers

Graham

[BBJ]

I have a complaint,LOL shirt not big enough to fit my fat body. hahaha
Cheers
John
BBJ
6xl LOL

[Glen]

BBJ, don't eat for a week and use the money you save on lenses

[Nnnnsic]

Err... no.

That's a bit ridiculous.

I'd prefer not to force people to buy something they may or may not want just to get access to the Bargains section.
Buying a shirt doesn't mean you're an active member of the forum and are thereby given the right to use the Bargains section.

[birddog114]

Err... no.

That's a bit ridiculous.

I'd prefer not to force people to buy something they may or may not want just to get access to the Bargains section.
Buying a shirt doesn't mean you're an active member of the forum and are thereby given the right to use the Bargains section.

I totally agreed with Leigh, I funded all the stocks cos I love the forum and want to have thing ready when people wants, I hated back-order unless I can't do much about it, that why I did it.

I never asking or force someone to buy a polo as qualified for the gears, and always respect member's choice and taste. I only recommended member, once they order a small item but freight would be covered if they get the polo same time.

[gstark]

Genji,

Pay attention, boy.

what is the real harm? a member buying from birddog and re-selling at a profit?? i suspect this would happen once.

maybe what u need is an middle-man who can monitor and make approvals?? [/img]

Genji,

The mere fact that you have even asked this question concerns me greatly.

R u saying the it greatly concerned u that I asked the question? IMHO i am more concerned that ppl are making a buck out of someones generosity rather then them finding a bargain.

That has never, ever, been raised as an issue until now.

It is simply missing the point the completely. Please reread this whole thread very carefully. Please note carefully Glen's comments about Birddog's business and family needs, and please understand our need to respect those.

FYI I have started 2 threads in the image critique forum and also 2 threads in the general discussion forum. I have been a member since the 19 Jan 2005. Thats 1 post per week in the image and general discussion forum. I intend to keep it that way, as it would give me time to process photos, digest the critique and participate in other posts.

With all due respect, who do you think it might have been who promoted your status to that of "member" on Jan 19?

If you think that I'm not aware of your posting history, then, again, and with all due respect, you do me a great injustice.

If members can't asked/raised questions for fear of being 'flagged' to the admins, its no wonder we only see the same ppl posting all the time.

Again, if you think that you're seeing just the same people posting, perhaps you're only reading a small number of the postings. I've been offline for less than 24 hours, and returned to find over 300 posting made in that period; that's a lot to keep up with.

I'm on record, a great number of times, as saying that I encourage vigorous debate. Ask questions. Query me. Challenge theories, by all means. Do not even think about flaming anyone though. I'm not for a moment suggesting that you have, or that you would; I'm merely reiterating the fact that we can have serious and vibrant discussions without resorting to that sort of trash.

But the questions you were asking were simply totally on the wrong wavelength, and again, I'm disappointed that you, in asking questions - related to the membership priveleges that must be earned, are not able to understand that the motivation behind these is simply to engender the spirit of community here.

The point here is that your questions were framed to look like we're concerned about someone taking advantage of the prices, etc. That's certainly an issue, but it's one that Leigh and I handle.

But it's my belief that for any member - with the true spirit of membership that we have here - that's simply not a question that's even worthy of consideration.

I hope that makes my position a little clearer for you.

[gstark]

We don't pay special attention to the senior members

What about certain party animals...do you pay special attention to them?

I try to pay equal attention to all posters here on the forum.

But it's a funny thing the way that this works - the more you post, the more we (each) have to pay attention to. So, yes, frequent posters will get more attention, but then, they're also putting more in to the forum as well.

Personally, I see that as being natural and correct, and I have no problems with that whatsoever.

I must say that I think of myself as a regular poster, but I do it for the sheer fun of being part of the community and for some reason I've grown fond of people that I've never physically met but enjoy all the same. I don't really have convenient access to birdie's bargains so that doesn't factor into it (although I've thought about ordering a pro strap or a tshirt recently.)

And that is the onloy reason that I would find acceptable for someone to be posting here.

If you're not enjoying being a part of this community, I will be the first to suggest that you look elsewhere.

But there seems to be quite a few who do enjoy being a part of this community, and I'm happy to host all of them, for as long as they're having fun here.


And remember - if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!

[sirhc55]

Gary - well said and I am 100% behind you but only 50% on Nikon only lens

Chris

[gstark]

I see Birdie has a stock of 100 D70 forum shirts and has sold none since December.

Maybe a condition of access to the bargains section could include a mandatory purchase of a D70 users T shirt in addition to the 30 posts minimum. This would indicate some kind of comittment to maintaining the group experience and to belonging in general.

Interesting thought, Graham, but I'm not into trying to tell people how they should spend their $$$$.

We just had dinner at a Korean restaurant in Waikiki, and I was outraged that, for a party of two, this place had the temerity to add the gratuity to the bill before giving it to me.

Then, in the credit card charge, they placed the total (including their pre-ordained gratuity) as the total amount of the meal charge, leaving the tip section vacant, awaiting, seemingly, a further tip.

Lucky for them I'm in a good mood this evening ....

[gstark]

Gary - well said and I am 100% behind you but only 50% on Nikon only lens

Chris,

That's your choice, and you know I respect that.

And you know, there was once a time when I also didn't use Nikon glass.

It wouldn't fit on my Canon A1.

[gstark]

...However, people who have only recently joined who put forth such a suggestion that they should be one of the people who moderate and / or make approvals sounds a bit pointless... people in question with ideas like that need to wait just a bit longer before we place our trust in them....

mate,
i made a suggestion, because i see it heading that way, I never ever mention i was going to be the one...u miss-read the post. And if u r reading between the line...u r mistaken.

Just one final point on the from me for the moment.

You're saying that you see "it" heading "that way". I'm sorry, but I really don't know what you mean here. What do you see heading which way?

before you answer that question though, let me ask you a few others.

Do you know how often Leigh and I talk with each other about issues related to running this forum?

Do you know how often I chat with Birddog on exactly the same (or very similar) matters?

Do you know how many of the members here - mainly those who have been here since the start, but a few others whom we've grown to know and trust - Leigh, Birddog and I choose to share counsel with on matters such as these?

Perhaps if you now stopped and took a few moments to consider the answers to these simple questions, you might understand a little bit more about where Leigh's and my comments were coming from, and why perhaps most people here don't seem to share your view of this forum is heading.

Yes, it's a lot bigger than it was a month ago.

Yes, it's growing at a damn fast rate; far quicker than I expected.

That's strongly suggestive to me that there's something good here; my best advice to you is that, if you believe this forum to be of value to you, please enjoy it.

[Nnnnsic]

Lucky for them I'm in a good mood this evening ....

I'd say it's more lucky for you, Dad, what with your explosive anger and America on heightened alert for angry-sounding-people-that-I'm-sure-they'd-arrest-and-hold-for-no-reason that they could claim are terrorists later.

[gstark]

I'm being very good here ...

thus far.

[Nnnnsic]

With that genji, don't take any of it the wrong way.

Dad and I have a different conversation about the administration and future of the forum at least once daily. No joke.

We have our concerns and we share them, as Dad says, with Birddog and other senior members who we've grown to trust over the past few months who may or may not have been with us from the start but have also been genuine people on this board with a level of concern that is respectable.

That said, I'm not saying that your concern isn't respectable by any means.
However, while suggestions are always welcome as it helps discussion, some aren't warranted from especially from very new users.

Don't worry... you're not in our bad books, dude. We had one guy who joined and before he even made a post, requested to be made a moderator or admin because he'd had experience in the past...

As to the running of the board in the future... I expect that someone will try to raught the system and make a buck off of Birddog eventually ... and I hope it never comes to that as Birddog's level of generosity is amazing... however, there are some absolutely disgusting and despicable people in the world... when it comes to that point, we'll deal with it.

This forum is still a photographic forum... it's not here JUST to be a bargains section... sure, some of the cheaper equipment helps but the forum is certainly not built on that... I see far more posts of people discussing photographic subjects, techniques, and image criticisations than I do for cheap equipment and I feel that that's a positive point.

Keep in mind that because Dad and myself have to approve people before they can join the group that gives them access to the Bargains section, we tend to go through many of that users posts to make sure that, even if they've passed the 30-post mark, they're posts have warranted the right to enter the section.
For us, that's just one of the things we do to try and keep some of the people that may or may not like to take advantage of Birddog's generosity out of the system.

[BBJ]

I aggree with you Gary,LOL what ever you say, your'e the man and i dont think there is anything wrong with they way you Leigh runs this forum,oh hang on except when leigh pulls the plug on us, HAHA. Leigh you wont live that down and we wont let you forget it.

Groath is good means different opinons, different perspectives and more information that 1 might learn from others and share with all of us.

We are lucky to have Birdy with us and back the forum like he does but also respect his rights in what he does. he has a life too.

I run my server and in my rooms that i run and i do not just hand over Operator status to anyone who enters to the room and start serving things they are going to get OPS, Not even my best friends who come into the chanels get any op status.

Anyhow i dont see any problems the way things are run here, i am just lucky like so many of us to be able to come and enjoy the freindship and learn more about the passion we have for our D70's and this forum.
Cheers
John
BBJ